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INTERVIEW

alyce carrier

october 26, 2019
minneapolis, minnesota



Adele: Do you want to introduce yourself with your name and where we are and the pronouns you use?

Alyce: My name is Alyce Carrier and the pronouns I use are she/her and we’re in Minneapolis, Minnesota at the Northern Clay Center.

Adele: Cool. Are you a cat or a dog?

Alyce: I’m definitely a dog

Adele: What makes you a dog?

Alyce: I would also say I’m a good dog. I have a friend that has that question, but it’s “are you a good dog or a bad dog?”

Ava: Oh, I like that.

Alyce: I would say I’m a good dog, very loyal. Very loyal and I love to run outside.



Ava: Can you describe your creative practice as a party?

Alyce: It’s funny, I was talking about this with my roommate Keegan because she loves listening to music all the time, all day. If she’s awake, she’s listening to music. I don’t like listening to music that much, especially in my studio or when I’m working. So I feel like my studio practice as a party would probably just be me. Very quiet, like a little library party.

Ava: Oooh, a library party!

Alyce: Like, you keep your voice at a quiet level. It’s a deep thought party, probably. I’m jealous of the people that are able to be around a lot of people and get work done, but I have to really isolate myself in order to really do anything. So it’s usually quiet. I’m not listening to music. Unless I’m doing something that’s mostly like, production, and I don’t really have to think about it that much. I also try not to be in that mode, ever. Because I feel like if I am just doing production work over and over again, that’s not a good sign. But yeah, most of the time it’s just quiet time. Anyone’s invited but you can’t talk.

Ava: That’s so nice. Can you define what kind of production stuff you’re talking about? When you’re in production mode, what are you producing?

Alyce: A lot of the time when I’m drawing on ceramics, it’s hours and hours of just drawing lines and circles. I feel like I could easily zone out or watch a television show or something. But I would rather spend that time getting into a deep thinking process. If I start making work where I completely zone out and watch tv or a movie or whatever, it just feels like that’s not my goal. It’s not something that I look down on with anybody else, it’s just a rule that I’ve made for myself, that I need to be paying attention when I’m making the work that I’m making.



Ava: Yeah, I’ve been thinking a lot about paying attention lately.

Adele: Yeah, and being present in the action or the moment. I’ve been thinking about that a lot in the sense that I’ve been driving a lot but I don’t really wanna listen to podcasts. Instead I’d rather think.

Alyce: I used to listen to podcasts a lot but it just feels like such a distraction at this point. And I think the way that a lot of podcasts are and the way that they talk feels really manipulative in some way—I mean, not all podcasts, obviously. I don’t know. It gets really overloaded. I feel like there’s so much opportunity for multi-tasking, you know, while you’re doing this, you might as well be able to read or listen to this book and to get in as much as you can during the day or whatever. I think it’s also really nice to just sit in silence. I feel really comfortable in that. When I do listen to something, it’s mainly an audiobook, because of the length of time and there’s never any ads or interruptions. I also have such a bad relationship with my phone. If I look at my phone—like, if a podcast ends or I want to change a song—I blackout and it’s been half an hour and I’m on Instagram, you know? It’s best if I just don’t look at my phone. So when I am listening to something, it’s usually an audiobook.

Adele: What book have you been reading or listening to recently?

Alyce: I was listening to The Goldfinch, and chose that specifically for the length of it.

Adele: Yeah, it’s really long.

Alyce: I don’t mean to speak for all podcasts, but I think a lot of them are so sugar-coated, too. It feels like such a shame. The really popular podcasts feel like such a sugar-coated version of hard topics. I think that to be able to access people’s ears in that way, you could really take advantage of that and really get some movements going. And I’m sure that there are podcasts that are doing that, but they’re just not as popular, you know?

Adele: They’re not as fun. Can you tell us about the Days of Nothing zine project?

Alyce: Yeah, totally. I was reading a Margaret Atwood book and there was a sentence in there where she used “days of nothing,” which really popped out to me. As far as being an artist and making work, I’m learning that there’s very much a cycle of process and production. There are periods of time where you feel like everything is clicking, your ideas are formulating into actual physical objects and you’re producing work and you can photograph it and you’re getting shows or whatever. You’re selling the work. But then there’s also the period of time where you’re not making anything, and for a long time I thought of that as a negative time, where I didn’t have a lot of ideas and I was not feeling very creative. I came to understand that as part of the cycle of production, of producing and making work, that you need this down time in order to read a lot or write a lot.



For me, the way I was dealing with that “days of nothing” period was just trying to get as much information into my body as possible. A lot of that was through my friends, who inspire a lot of my work. I interact with them on a day-to-day basis and try to get as much information from them and try to get them to share ideas with me. For the Days of Nothing zines, the four things that I ask from people are a recipe, a memory, an observation, and a scenario. Anyone can send me whatever, but those four things feel like a range of ways people can share ideas with me. I was actually really surprised. Recipes felt like the easiest one for people to feel confident about. I think when you ask people to send you something, or to share—writing especially—they get really nervous about it and think it has to be a certain way or whatever. So recipe felt like a nice one, because there is a format, but I have the least amount of recipes, which I think is interesting.

Adele: Scenario also feels really fun, but complex.

Alyce: Yeah. The issues that I have published so far mostly involve people that I know. I wanted to try to reach out to people I didn’t know who might want to submit stuff. I want to continue doing it but I need to figure out a way to go back to where it was a little bit more personal and where it’s more of a conversation that I’m having with the people I’m around. I’m still trying to figure it out, but I have four issues. It was just a side project, and it was also the first time I really did a collaboration of some sort. Normally I’m by myself in my studio and this was a way to interact with more people and make work from that.

Adele: Yeah, and the intention of the collaboration for you is to share with other people or—

Alyce: I don’t know. I love the idea of it—that it is a process and that it is a cycle—that feels really good to me. But trying to turn it into something feels a little like it’s not clicking. For me, when I have an idea, my first thought is how do I make it into something? Or how do I produce it? And for this particular thing, the idea feels really good and the four issues that I came out with are very nice and they look nice and I like the stuff that’s in it but it feels a little bit separate from the original idea and the intention behind it. I want to be able to figure that out. It feels fun to have that as a problem. If people do send me things, do I have to make it into something? And also, I didn’t really share it with anybody else. Like, I made the issues, and I sent them to the people who submitted the work, but I didn’t send it to anybody else. And that was an issue of me just not making enough. I think I made ten of each issue. So it’s also a question of distribution.

Adele: I mean, it’s expensive. That’s understandable.

Alyce: Right. It was labor to cut everything and put them all together. I was thinking of selling them, because it was a lot of work, but that also felt bad to ask people to submit things and then sell them and profit off of it. I don’t know. As soon as it became an object it got really complicated and I just want to be really careful about that. Right now, I’m just back in thinking mode about it. The overarching understanding of it is just really being ok with not being in production mode, and that is so, so important. The nothing period is equally as important as the production period. They can’t work without each other.

Adele: It’s really important to have a regenerative phase.

Alyce: Yeah. I really am so good at isolating myself when I work and getting in such a focused mode. But I also understand that a lot of my work comes from interacting with people and being around people, so I need to balance those things, and I’m constantly working on that.

Adele: Balance is so hard! Speaking of balance, what kind of different media do you use and how do they all fit together or inform each other?

Alyce: I went to school for ceramics—like, sculptural ceramics—and when I graduated, I didn’t have the facilities to continue doing what I was doing. I took a printmaking class in college and I thought it was really fun to be able to take the imagery that I was doing on the ceramics and challenge the scale of it or the medium of it to see what was working about it and what wasn’t. In my head, the purpose of the experimentation was always to transfer that information back on to ceramics. I feel like they were all informing each other and it was always productive to experiment with screenprinting or murals because everything was interacting. That was the mindset that I had, that they were all informing each other. I think that also it’s hard for me to really fully commit to ceramics. I don’t know if I really fit into that world, necessarily. I think I feel really comfortable in general being on the edge of a lot of things. It’s great, and it’s fun to dabble in everything, but then it’s like, am I actually good at anything?

Adele: Yes.

Ava: Oh my god.

Alyce: Yeah, it’s really fun, and it’s really fun to not commit to anything, is what I’m learning about myself. Also, traveling around, bopping around is what I was doing for a long time and this move to Minneapolis was the first time I was like, I need to settle somewhere, and that feels so uncomfortable. It feels really challenging and hard, because it involves facing a lot of things about yourself. So this year is really a strong commitment to clay, basically, and re-evaluating a lot of things and just getting a lot better at making stuff out of clay. I also want to get better at drawing, because I feel really far-removed from the black and white imagery that I’ve been doing for a while. So it feels fun. I’m not really thinking about printmaking as much, but drawing I really want to spend a lot of time on, and writing, too. I’m still committed to clay.



Adele: Can you talk about your drawings on clay, and the origins of that interaction? Who are your figures and how did they come into being?

Alyce: The imagery that I’m talking about is the stuff that I started drawing in college and up until this point. It’s all black and white imagery and it’s a lot of androgynous characters interacting with each other in specific ways. A lot of it is about human interaction and touch and really romanticizing romance in a big way, just imagining different points of interaction between two people, I guess. So that was what a lot of these drawings are about, interaction and intimacy and trying to understand what that is because I was not very intimate with anyone at that point. The black and white imagery was basically just to create a problem for myself. I wanted to focus on the drawings and the patterning—like, the only colors I have are black and white and how can I create an image with just pattern and line? I think at this point, the cartooniness of the image, or of the characters, is not because I’m choosing for them to be cartoony, it’s because I’m not good at drawing. You know what I mean?

Adele: Yes. Totally know what you mean.

Alyce: I want to be able to make that decision. If I want to make a cartoony hand, it’s because I’m like, this would look better as a cartoon hand rather than a realistic hand. I want to have more intention with the imagery. I feel really distant from them for some reason. Getting this residency and these thoughts that I’d been having happened all at the same time, so it feels really nice to be in this space because it’s given me a lot of time to just think about it. Having to not pay for a studio gives me the space to mess up and experiment. I think there was a period of two years where I was getting attention for those pieces that I was making, and feeling trapped in it, and feeling like I needed to continue doing that. It’s not that I don’t want to continue with black and white, but I was getting separate from it, getting a little lost, not understanding what those images were saying anymore. So, yeah. I still want to do image-based ceramics, but I just don’t know what I wanna draw at this point. Also, color feels really exciting.

Adele: I’m really liking all of these pink prints and drawings.

Ava: Speaking of color, and where you’re moving with your ceramics, can you talk about your Bruised series?

Alyce: Yeah, that was something I’d been thinking about for so long but because I was moving around so much, it wasn’t happening. I actually just started doing it. The thought originally happened because I was making an urn for my grandmother’s ashes. I so casually volunteered to make that object, which made sense, because I make things out of clay. Like, ashes can go in this, and it makes sense, and I love my grandmother. But when I was making it, it was so intense. It really threw me, how intense it was, thinking about what was going to go in this object. The Bruised series comes from this idea of building something with really intense attention. In general, intense attention and care of a person that you love, or the house that you live in, or whatever, and also the opposite of that, intense abandonment. Basically, the idea is taking these objects that I’ve made and really spent a lot of time with and then abandoning them and leaving them to just develop without my attention. Trash was the original idea, but it doesn’t really work. These two pots that I just did are soaking in natural dye, for like two weeks. So trying to play around with color in that way of like, what happens when you leave something.

Adele: Like the neglect of—

Alyce: Yeah, that was the word I was looking for. Intense neglect matched with really intense care. I feel like those two things are constantly present in my life. So yeah, those pots are just soaked in a natural dye for a few weeks, just left alone. It feels exciting because it doesn’t feel super clear what’s going on yet, so I just need to make more objects and soak them. I need to leave ‘em around for a while and ignore them and see what happens.

Ava: What is the natural dye that you’re using?

Alyce: A friend was visiting our house and she did some dye work while here, so I used her leftover dye, which is called Cutch. With this one being soaked, this is the water line, but everything is leaching up. They’re really nice to look at and to stare at and to think about for a while, but also to play with glazing them. I don’t know. It also just kind of looks like a period explosion.

Adele: It does. And the term bruise is interesting because a bruise is a self-repairing mechanism that your body does after it’s been hurt.

Alyce: Right. And bruising of fruit, too… is not necessarily a bad thing, it means there’s a lot of sugar!

Adele: Exactly.

Alyce: It feels exciting to me because it feels like I’m thinking about things a lot rather than just drawing cartoons on pots. There’s more thought behind the drawings, but this feels less obvious than just like, I’m feeling sad so I’m going to draw a sad guy, you know? These have more depth to them and that feels like a good challenge for me, to get back into that thought process. I just basically need to make more objects to forget about.

Adele: That’s a nice place to be in, to make objects in this flurry of making and put them somewhere else where they’re continuing to grow but you just kind of turn the mechanism off.

Alyce: You can kind of see the coil, and the cracks, too, which I’m also trying to embrace. Cracks in ceramics are always a no-no, or it means they’re unsellable or whatever. I’m just trying to think this radical idea that maybe they’re ok. Maybe the cracks are ok.

Adele: They’re really beautiful, these dark lines.



Ava: What is your definition of home?

Alyce: Before I moved to Minneapolis, I was at a residency in Berlin, and it was in January, so it was so dark, so cold. I had this familiar feeling of loneliness and I was like, I don’t need to do this to myself anymore.

Ava: Oh my god, yes. That’s what I keep thinking to myself now.

Adele: Same.

Alyce: The number one goal is my work, and with the way that I work, that means isolating myself and focusing on that. When I was in Berlin, I was like, this is insane. This is not sustainable as far as my whole life is concerned, to isolate myself in this way for months and months and then come out of it and see my friends a little bit and then go back into this isolation. It’s not a way to develop relationships at all. It felt really clear to me that my next move needed to be very intentionally towards community and friends and building that. It’s definitely not my strong point, and it’s not a comfort zone. My focus was like, I need to abandon this insane drive towards my work and put that towards having friends and building relationships. When I left Berlin, I was going to move with two friends, Keegan and Morgan, to Philadelphia. They were living in Philadelphia at the time and I was just like, I don’t care where you guys are, I need to move where you are. That was the plan, I was going to move to Philly. And then they randomly chose to move to Minneapolis because they did a 10-day residency here. They did a 10-day residency and they were like, we’re moving here.

Adele: Amazing. I feel this. I feel the allure.

Alyce: And the crazy thing was, it was in February, so there wasn’t even nice weather! It was the people that they met, and they were also in a mood to not be in Philly. I think they wanted less city life. I introduced my cousin and Morgan to each other, and they’re dating, and we all moved out here together last year. Only Keegan and Morgan had been here before. So yeah, we moved here pretty blindly, with the intention—me personally—of trying to develop a home-base. The people that I’m living with are just so good at bringing people together and they have a lot of skills that I lack, as far as wanting to be around people all the time. I feel like we’ve created a very nice home together. But after a year of really investing a lot of time in that, I’m feeling so lost with art, and being in the studio, and what my thoughts are about that. I’m feeling so distant from it. It’s this continual balance of trying to have strong relationships with people and developing that but then also having a thriving art practice.



I’m at a point where I’m kind of resentful, which is not a good feeling. Like, resentful towards home, I guess. Which has nothing to do with the people I live with at all. It’s me just not being able to maintain both things, and feeling an urge to go back to isolation mode. Now I have access to this residency, and it feels like a really good opportunity to go gung ho on it. The people that I’m living with are very different from me in that they’re very social and they’re very extroverted and the way that they work with The Religion—it’s so social. When they are making work, they’re talking to people and interacting with people and when I’m making work I’m by myself. I have to excuse myself from things in order to make stuff, which feels opposite from them. It’s hard. I’m thinking it has to do with being around people that have similar studio parties as you, you know? Their party is very different than my party. They don’t really get along very well, so it feels conflicting. I feel positive about home, and I feel like it takes a lot of work and just as much work as anything else, but I also feel really stressed about being distant from my own work. I like being here but I also really miss the west coast, I think.

Adele: Is that where you’re from?

Alyce: I’m from Utah, so not really the west coast—

Adele: West enough for us.

Alyce: I really miss the desert and the landscape. There are certain things I feel really homesick about, but I don’t really know where home is, at this point.

Adele: I like the idea of home as being a commitment. And I understand the homesickness, too.

Alyce: Yeah, like homesickness towards something that doesn’t actually exist anymore. It’s a nostalgic—or, I don’t know what it is, but I feel like—

Adele: It is totally nostalgic!

Alyce: I think a lot of it is just me accepting that I’m an adult. I was in Seattle for the summer and I got doored by a car. It was fine, I wasn’t going that fast. If anything, it was just really scary. I wasn’t that badly hurt. But that was the first understanding of like, no one is going to come get me. I can’t call my mom, because she’s not here, but also I wouldn’t call my mom. No one is going to come get me and I have to get back on my bike and bike home. That was just the loneliest feeling and a really hard slap in the face, like, you’re an adult and this is what it means to be an adult—pretending it’s ok and you have to keep going. That was such a hard thing to realize. I was crying the whole way home. I think that was a really good realization of just like, you’re by yourself in a lot of ways. And you’re also not by yourself. But you just can’t call your mom anymore.

Adele: And it’s hard to recognize the threads of the network. That really resonates with me, living alone in my van, and being like, ok, I’m a hundred miles from anything, and I have to make sure that the van starts and that Banshee and I can get out of here and that we don’t freeze tonight and that Banshee eats. There’s no one else looking out for me.

Alyce: Yeah, it feels really freaky sometimes.

Adele: It feels like you’re standing at the edge of a cliff. The only thing that’s saving you from falling off is you. Which is very, very lonely, but also, we’re lucky to live in an age where we’re really not alone. I can always open Instagram, I can always call, and while those people might not be here, those threads are just as important.

Alyce: And that was kind of the thought process I had when I was in Berlin. Like, I am so far away from everybody—and I don’t have to do this anymore. It felt empowering to be able to recognize that and to make a choice towards community. I felt really grateful that I had that option, that there were these people who took me in so gracefully. It’s hard because if you continue to leave and not settle in one place, it just creates more wanting to leave. It’s really hard to settle somewhere, but you have to put that time in order for it to get easier. I don’t know if I want to put the time into this place specifically. But I don’t know where else I would go. I don’t know. Home feels really strange right now, as far as the idea. My actual home is great, but I feel like I’m still in the habit of continually moving, and not having to take responsibility for a lot of things.

Ava: Yeah, it’s my second year in Spain. I spent so much time alone last year, and it felt really important, and now I’m here again, even more alone than I was last year, and I’m definitely thinking like, I don’t have to do this, why am I doing this?! This cutting myself off from community and friends—I mean, obviously I’m not cutting myself off from friends, because of technology, but yeah. This will be my last year out and about in the world. I’m thinking about making that same choice, of focusing on community and where will I go and what will it look like.

Adele: But for you and I, Ava, I also wonder if that is following a phase of intense community-building with Corner Office in Richmond, with both of us being like, alright, now we need some isolation.

Alyce: Totally. I think something that I’ve learned this year is that—similar to the thought process with Days of Nothing—it’s all cyclical and it’s all feeding off each other. I can’t live in isolation all the time or a social community all the time. I need to create boundaries and balance between those two things, and hopefully they are both feeding off of each other. That’s the ideal. I love being by myself, and I think that that’s ok, and I’m letting myself be ok with that, but I also need to challenge myself to really connect with people, because it is really important to me and I can’t take relationships or friendships for granted. I need to be present and ask people questions. You know, like a conversation.

Adele: Yeah, it’s so important. Just being in Minneapolis after a week of literally talking to no one is is amazing! I’m like, I’m not going to do anything besides have hours of conversations.

Alyce: Yeah, my girlfriend called me yesterday at like, 11pm, and my voice kind of cracked—she was like, what is going on, are you sick or something? It was because from the time that I woke up, at 7:30, until 11, I’d just been walking around, completely in my own head, and I hadn’t spoken to a human yet. In these periods where I wasn’t living with people, I wouldn’t speak out loud for an entire day. Or I would just be talking to Finn, my dog. I don’t think that’s super great. It’s just a balance, I guess.

Adele: Yeah. I mean, it is kind of beautiful.

Ava: Our last question recently has been “what are you excited about?” But I’ve been thinking a lot lately about what I’m obsessed with and thinking about it along the lines of what I’m in love with. What are you currently in love with?

Alyce: I’ve been thinking a lot about horses.

Ava: Yes!

Alyce: There’s this series I’ve been thinking a lot about the past year. It has to do with a trauma that happened with my sister and our family, and thinking a lot about memory and the memory of a trauma. This series is about processing trauma and the process of memory and how every time you try to think back on that thing it becomes less and less tangible. So I’ve been working on that idea, and rather than applying it directly to my sister, I’ve been thinking about when I was a kid and having a lot of interactions with horses. I have strong memories of feeling them and feeling their body and riding them, very visceral feelings that have really stuck with me. I’ve been thinking about horses so much and trying to draw them without any reference point, just pulling out from my memory what a horse looks like, which feels really fun, to just try to figure it out.



Adele: Yes. I really love these drawings.

Alyce: Yeah, I’m drawing horses and thinking a lot about them. In the same way, I’m thinking of this memory of my sister and her trauma and what that means and what that looks like. I’ve also been trying to make horses out of clay, which has been fun, too. My obsession is the memory of touching the horses, specifically their necks. When I’m drawing them, I’m really pulling, and that feels like a good challenge, as opposed to just like, looking them up on the internet and seeing that that’s what their back leg looks like. I’m really into the idea of doing things well and having intention, but also being ok with drawing a horse that looks pretty fucked up. I’m really thinking a lot about horses and a lot about not doing everything perfectly, or to the standard that I’ve held myself up to. I’ve also really been obsessed with broths, with soup stock and broth. Bones. A lot of bones. Bones bones bones.

Ava: I love broth so much.

Alyce: Me too. I love broth. I just got a book that’s called Nourishing Broth. I think that’s the best word for it.

Ava: It’s life-giving.

Alyce: Yeah, I think so.

Adele: It’s really nice, the process of making broth is like, the last step. You can make a whole roast chicken and then make this broth over the course of several days—

Alyce: Totally. Giving it new life. Yeah. And I’ve been getting sick a lot, and it seems like broth is a good way to go to try to not get sick. That’s going to be the solution.

Adele: This is why I really miss having a kitchen.

Alyce: I know. When I was living in Seattle I was house-sitting in this really insane house that felt so removed from me, and my fantasy was just having my own teapot. I was like, I cannot wait until I have my own space and I can make tea or coffee with my own teapot. I just think it really feels nice to have your own space, whatever that is. It does feel nice to have a kitchen. As far as obsession is concerned, that was always the emphasis in college, like, “what are you interested in?” A lot of artist interviews are like, “I’m obsessed with this right now,” and I think that that mindset really influenced me in thinking you have to be really interested or obsessed with something to motivate your work. I felt really self-conscious about that because I never felt so passionately about one specific thing. I think there is so much value in being really interested in something and continuing to research. Finding my own version of that obsession feels really nice.

Ava: Yeah. I find that my obsessions are not always related to my work. Or maybe they sometimes or somehow eventually play into it, but they’re more so the everyday things that keep me going.

Adele: I don’t know that I feel that way. There are things that I obsessively draw over and over again. One being snakes. For a while it was horses, dogs. Dogs and horses.

Alyce: I draw the same thing over and over again but I think that’s just because it’s all I know how to draw.

Adele: I wonder about that too! I’m like, this is just a warm-up because I know how to draw this.

Alyce: I draw a lot of dogs because that’s all I know how to draw. I don’t really know how to draw a dog, but I draw one dog, a cartoon dog. I want to get to the point where I’m drawing more things. I guess I’m obsessed with my dog, because I’m around him all the time and I’m responsible for him. Thinking about him all the time.

BONUS CONVERSATION ON PANTS!

Ava: Oh wait, there’s one thing that we didn’t talk about, which is that you’re good at pants! [for reference, Alyce’s Instagram bio reads “good at pants”]

Adele: Oh yeah! What does that mean?

Alyce: I’m trying to remember where that came from. I think it’s just one of my skills. I’m good at finding pants that fit me.

Adele: Oh, yes. Me too.

Alyce: I’m good at pants and I think that that’s forever a struggle with clothes, especially living a queer lifestyle. Like, how does that translate into clothes? It’s just constantly a problem. I feel like I’m a stranger in my own body when I’m trying to do this, but pants feel like the most solid item of clothing that I can wear that I feel good about. I also have helped my roommates find pants, so they all have good pants on their butts, and I feel like that has to do with me. I think it’s just one thing that I am good at.

Adele: Pants. That’s quite an accolade.

Alyce: Thank you.

Ava: Things that I struggle with that I’ve been thinking about so much are 1) queer style and how it translates through my own personal style lens, and 2) I’ve come to the same conclusion that pants are kind of the best way to do it and I can’t find the right pants and I’m going crazy.

Adele: Queer style is really hard, especially queer formal wear for me, because I live in pants all summer and winter. I’m like, I can’t wear these to a wedding, what the hell am I gonna do?!

Alyce: I know, it’s hard. You didn’t ask for a recommendation, but I will say—

Ava: I want one.

Alyce: The best pants that I have found that I will wear every day if I could, if they weren’t dirty one of the days, are the Everlane straight-leg pants. I don’t know exactly what they’re called. I get the black ones. They are the best pants I’ve ever had. They are thick—

Ava: Denim?

Alyce: They’re not denim, they’re thick cotton twill. And they don’t bag out, which is one thing I hate, when you wear pants and they’re like, good for a day or two and then they just feel like they’re hanging off your body. They don’t do that, and they’re high-waisted, and they have good deep front pockets, and they’re not super wide and they’re not super narrow. They’re my number one pant. And they also just came out with short and tall versions. And they’re not that expensive, they’re like, $68.

Ava: Wait, the straight-leg…

Alyce: Are you looking it up right now?

Ava: I am on the website.

Alyce: Where did that come from, this idea of your best pants, your favorite pants, you’ll never have to own another pair of pants—that’s unattainable! These Everlane pants are the closest I’ve gotten to that, but where did that idea come from? It’s in my head a lot—I’m going to find the perfect jeans—but that doesn’t exist! And it creates a feeling of needing to buy more.

Ava: Yeah. I wish it were far easier to find Goodwill pants that fit perfectly. But that’s a challenge. It’s even more of a challenge than anything.

Alyce: I agree. It’s hard for me to find a good pair of pants from Goodwill. That’s a tough one.

Adele: It’s satisfying when it happens.

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This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

To read Alyce’s thoughts on ROMANCE, stay tuned for issue 03!